Man I don't even know haha. Arular and Kala esp. kick ass and hold up really really well. Kala is probably one of the best/most adventurous pop albums of the aughts, I certainly could've mentioned it in there. Besides "Bad Girls" though not sure if she's been as great since then. And this is a boring take but I think she had trouble becoming a proper "star" in America because Americans didn't know what to do with a politically-outspoken Sri Lankan Brit. Whatever these new politics of hers are, they'll probably guarantee she never gets that popular again.
Thanks for the great primal dance recommendations!
I mostly agree with you on Charli, but she hasn't exactly emerged from the forehead of Zeus. I feel obliged to defend Dua Lipa's honour here - as I'd argue she helped inaugurate this era of pop positivity alongside other British acts like Jessie Ware, Self Esteem, Fred again, Romy, Elderbrook, CamelPhat as well as the antipodeans Troye Sivan, Confidence Man, HAAi, all the pop girlies from Sweden and the X-rated Kim Petras. Maybe stagnation in pop progress has been especially pronounced in the US?
You could very well be right. All I know is that I haven't heard any music from those artists that is compelling to me, or at least have yet to make a consistently GREAT album (Romy was better on Jamie xx's solo record than on her own, imo; Jessie Ware is a great singer in search of great songs, etc. etc. ). Charli's also been around for a loooong time in pop terms. She's made plenty of dull music, and she's no musical genius, I just think she's special cause she can have both cachet and then on those two genuinely great albums work within the closest thing we've had to a pop avant-garde. The last person to do that was Robyn, whom Americans never made as huge as she deserved to be. And there are plenty of current "pop" artists I think are even moe brilliant - Cate Le Bon, Adrianne Lenker, Jessica Pratt, Avalon Emerson, Caroline Polachek (plus Fiona Apple and Joanna Newsom are still around and are actual geniuses) - they just don't reach big audiences. Alas.
Oops and Lana. If she's a pop star, she's the exception. Uneven discography but brilliant at her best. And I'll have to go listen a little deeper to the people you mentioned, MJE.
All good points - and I fully agree with you on Robyn. Although I'm not sure whether a deeper listen will alter your opinion of the other artists I listed! As you mention in your piece, pop music plays an important communal role, so I find it difficult to defend my pop affections in purely musicological terms, removed from the personal or subcultural context in which I was first introduced to the music. It remains an interesting question of why and how more experimental artistic endeavours capture the broader cultural imagination. Charli deserves recognition for producing such a compelling full album (and not just one or two catchy songs), but I was nevertheless struck by the apparent moral nihilism of the project, especially in contrast to last summer's pop cultural obsession (Gerwig's Barbie contained enough feminist messaging, at least on the surface, to provide a moral justification for indulging in Mattel merch). I can't blame anyone for reminiscing about doing a little key, doing a little line, especially when they've spent months working themselves into a frenzy about the situation in Israel/Palestine, but I'm not sure whether this represents a permanent vibe shift away from simple moralising, or merely a temporary reprieve.
Yes, I wonder every time I hear “Espresso” now—is it good? Is it that good? And where does the money come from and to what end?? I hear it everyday in Europe now, I’m sure it’s playing in cafes and bars across the world. maybe there’s some way they (whoever they are) predict global appeal beyond one set of cultural norms or another. Like an algorithmic lyric analysis or something—not too verbally complex (so not Caroline Polachek) and not too “weird”… simple and catchy enough to stick in peoples heads. Like a least common denominator, mass appeal factor
The algorithms are powerful! Though sometimes I wonder if it still isn't mostly an updated version of what used to be called Payola. For the plebes it's all games of luck and algorithms--for behemoth companies, though, they might be able to just outright by the "airtime." I'm sure they also have teams of Millennial McKinsey types focus-grouping the shit out of things like "That's that me, espresso." Which would've been called vaguely avant-garde if someone like Young Thug said it eight years ago, but now internet dumb-speak has filtered down enough to be palatable to all ages: Gen Z laughs at the cringe, Millennials probably eat it up unironically because they're starting to feel passe, Gen X scowls but tries to like it for the sake of their children, and the Boomers hear it and think "huh, weird" and learn the lyrics to connect with their grandkids. At least that's how I imagine the McKinsey types selling it.
Good take. That irony box thing with the posing, the voyeurism, that must be hard to inhabit authentically and sincerely. Being a public figure for a long enough duration of time may help … still, how!!? I wonder— is Donald Trump the master of a similar skillset? I like Mitski. she could fit into this conversation, but she doesn’t have the same iconic pop-personality, more an auteur without mass market appeal?
Yes! Mitski's great. Definitely what I would call an auteur. "My Love Mine All Mine" becoming THAT big was interesting, it leaves open the possibility of her becoming a star in the future. But becoming as ubiquitous as a Dua Lipa--or the way Sabrina Carpenter's about to be--probably just requires incredible amounts of money behind it. Like, whether Lipa is actually a front for the Albanian mob, or just for Warner Entertainment, she's still functionally the face of a huge network of capital investment projects, a way for an enormous corporation to make a buck. Mitski's still on Dead Oceans which is somehow still independent. But that means they probably can't outright manufacture popularity. They made Phoebe Bridgers successful with smart placements and features but she still might never have a single song with as many streams as "Espresso." Idk! It's a mystery to me, too.
easily the best thing i've read about brat — thank you! especially these two bits:
> It was also the moment where all the fun experiments of hyperpop could, under the direction of someone with a littl vision, finally become a real human thing.
> And without even a bit of preaching, it comes across like an antidote to the strictures of the last ten years of uptight politesse, an idea of a future that’s warmer and freer. Personal expression and unbothered fun on the dance-floor. Conscientious self-reflection and a healthy amount of hedonism.
Not what I was expecting, but an interesting piece! I’m left wondering where you think M.I.A. fits into the pop landscape you’ve sketched here.
Man I don't even know haha. Arular and Kala esp. kick ass and hold up really really well. Kala is probably one of the best/most adventurous pop albums of the aughts, I certainly could've mentioned it in there. Besides "Bad Girls" though not sure if she's been as great since then. And this is a boring take but I think she had trouble becoming a proper "star" in America because Americans didn't know what to do with a politically-outspoken Sri Lankan Brit. Whatever these new politics of hers are, they'll probably guarantee she never gets that popular again.
Thanks for the great primal dance recommendations!
I mostly agree with you on Charli, but she hasn't exactly emerged from the forehead of Zeus. I feel obliged to defend Dua Lipa's honour here - as I'd argue she helped inaugurate this era of pop positivity alongside other British acts like Jessie Ware, Self Esteem, Fred again, Romy, Elderbrook, CamelPhat as well as the antipodeans Troye Sivan, Confidence Man, HAAi, all the pop girlies from Sweden and the X-rated Kim Petras. Maybe stagnation in pop progress has been especially pronounced in the US?
You could very well be right. All I know is that I haven't heard any music from those artists that is compelling to me, or at least have yet to make a consistently GREAT album (Romy was better on Jamie xx's solo record than on her own, imo; Jessie Ware is a great singer in search of great songs, etc. etc. ). Charli's also been around for a loooong time in pop terms. She's made plenty of dull music, and she's no musical genius, I just think she's special cause she can have both cachet and then on those two genuinely great albums work within the closest thing we've had to a pop avant-garde. The last person to do that was Robyn, whom Americans never made as huge as she deserved to be. And there are plenty of current "pop" artists I think are even moe brilliant - Cate Le Bon, Adrianne Lenker, Jessica Pratt, Avalon Emerson, Caroline Polachek (plus Fiona Apple and Joanna Newsom are still around and are actual geniuses) - they just don't reach big audiences. Alas.
Oops and Lana. If she's a pop star, she's the exception. Uneven discography but brilliant at her best. And I'll have to go listen a little deeper to the people you mentioned, MJE.
All good points - and I fully agree with you on Robyn. Although I'm not sure whether a deeper listen will alter your opinion of the other artists I listed! As you mention in your piece, pop music plays an important communal role, so I find it difficult to defend my pop affections in purely musicological terms, removed from the personal or subcultural context in which I was first introduced to the music. It remains an interesting question of why and how more experimental artistic endeavours capture the broader cultural imagination. Charli deserves recognition for producing such a compelling full album (and not just one or two catchy songs), but I was nevertheless struck by the apparent moral nihilism of the project, especially in contrast to last summer's pop cultural obsession (Gerwig's Barbie contained enough feminist messaging, at least on the surface, to provide a moral justification for indulging in Mattel merch). I can't blame anyone for reminiscing about doing a little key, doing a little line, especially when they've spent months working themselves into a frenzy about the situation in Israel/Palestine, but I'm not sure whether this represents a permanent vibe shift away from simple moralising, or merely a temporary reprieve.
Yes, I wonder every time I hear “Espresso” now—is it good? Is it that good? And where does the money come from and to what end?? I hear it everyday in Europe now, I’m sure it’s playing in cafes and bars across the world. maybe there’s some way they (whoever they are) predict global appeal beyond one set of cultural norms or another. Like an algorithmic lyric analysis or something—not too verbally complex (so not Caroline Polachek) and not too “weird”… simple and catchy enough to stick in peoples heads. Like a least common denominator, mass appeal factor
The algorithms are powerful! Though sometimes I wonder if it still isn't mostly an updated version of what used to be called Payola. For the plebes it's all games of luck and algorithms--for behemoth companies, though, they might be able to just outright by the "airtime." I'm sure they also have teams of Millennial McKinsey types focus-grouping the shit out of things like "That's that me, espresso." Which would've been called vaguely avant-garde if someone like Young Thug said it eight years ago, but now internet dumb-speak has filtered down enough to be palatable to all ages: Gen Z laughs at the cringe, Millennials probably eat it up unironically because they're starting to feel passe, Gen X scowls but tries to like it for the sake of their children, and the Boomers hear it and think "huh, weird" and learn the lyrics to connect with their grandkids. At least that's how I imagine the McKinsey types selling it.
Good take. That irony box thing with the posing, the voyeurism, that must be hard to inhabit authentically and sincerely. Being a public figure for a long enough duration of time may help … still, how!!? I wonder— is Donald Trump the master of a similar skillset? I like Mitski. she could fit into this conversation, but she doesn’t have the same iconic pop-personality, more an auteur without mass market appeal?
Yes! Mitski's great. Definitely what I would call an auteur. "My Love Mine All Mine" becoming THAT big was interesting, it leaves open the possibility of her becoming a star in the future. But becoming as ubiquitous as a Dua Lipa--or the way Sabrina Carpenter's about to be--probably just requires incredible amounts of money behind it. Like, whether Lipa is actually a front for the Albanian mob, or just for Warner Entertainment, she's still functionally the face of a huge network of capital investment projects, a way for an enormous corporation to make a buck. Mitski's still on Dead Oceans which is somehow still independent. But that means they probably can't outright manufacture popularity. They made Phoebe Bridgers successful with smart placements and features but she still might never have a single song with as many streams as "Espresso." Idk! It's a mystery to me, too.
easily the best thing i've read about brat — thank you! especially these two bits:
> It was also the moment where all the fun experiments of hyperpop could, under the direction of someone with a littl vision, finally become a real human thing.
> And without even a bit of preaching, it comes across like an antidote to the strictures of the last ten years of uptight politesse, an idea of a future that’s warmer and freer. Personal expression and unbothered fun on the dance-floor. Conscientious self-reflection and a healthy amount of hedonism.
Thanks, Jasmine!